Discussion On "A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives"
Compiled by Isaac Aluochier
Is The Article "A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives" "Bullshit"?
Subject:
Re: A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:29:44 +0100
From:
Isaac Aluochier
Organization:
Servants of Yahweh
To:
"Reader" <Reader>
Shalom
You wrote: "that article is bullshit."
Would you be kind enough to show WHY and HOW it is "bullshit"? Maybe your answers will assist in future article postings.
ISAAC
Is "Submitting To All" A False Doctrine?
Subject:
Re: A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:08:02 +0100
From:
Isaac Aluochier
Organization:
Servants of Yahweh
To:
Reader
Shalom
I will answer in the body of your text. It appears you have assumed that I have said things that I have not said! I will therefore clarify.
Reader wrote:
In a message dated 10/27/1999 2:35:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Isaac Aluochier writes:
<<Would you be kind enough to show WHY and HOW it is "bullshit"? Maybe your answers will assist in future article postings.>>
1. "submitting to all" is a false doctrine. Try harmonizing what peter says in Acts 5:29, with what most claim he is supposedly saying in 1st peter. Peter was plainly speaking of "them that are sent by Him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of them that do well." Is a woman being beaten by her "husband" applicable in this case? This was also the same Peter who was killed for disobeying Caesar.
Obey Yahweh Rather Than A Human Superior When Their Words Conflict
We are agreed that where there is conflict in the word of a human superior and Yahweh's word one is to obey Yahweh. But where there is no conflict one should obey the human superior.
Does Yahweh Permit A Husband To Beat Up His Wife?
Did I say that a husband is permitted to beat up his wife? Did I say that a wife should stay to receive beatings from her husband?
Where the life of the wife is threatened by her husband she should flee! That is what I stated repeatedly! I will give you an example.
Yah'shuah Fled When His Life Was In Danger
John 8:58-59 reads,
8:58
Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."8:59
They took up stones therefore to throw at him, but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.When Yah'shuah's life was in danger, did he wait to be stoned? Did he not flee from that environment BEFORE he was stoned? My view is that when a wife's life is in danger she should flee. Following Yah'shuah's example she should not wait to be physically disfigured before fleeing, but should flee when it becomes clear that her life is in danger!
Does all suffering unjust husbands inflict upon their wives take the form of physical beatings? Must persecution or oppression take the form of physical beating to be persecution or oppression? I don't think so. And in such non life threatening situations the wife should bear up with these for the sake of the kingdom of Yahweh, and receive the blessings that Yah'shuah pronounced on such.
Does Yahweh Permit The Righteous To Be Unsubmissive Towards The Unrighteous?
As far as 1 Peter 2:18 goes, the word for "froward" in that verse is strong's #4646,
Further, Yahweh does NOT require the righteous to submit to those who are in rebellion to Him. One good example of this in scripture is that of Saul and David
When did David flee from Saul? When his life was in danger, NOT before! Before then he submitted to Saul his master.
Submit To Unrighteous Superiors
In other words, one is to submit to one's superior, even a superior in rebellion against Yahweh, except when the command of the superior to one is to violate Yahweh's command. Therefore all Israel under Saul was to submit to him in any matter that did not violate Yahweh's command, notwithstanding that Saul was in rebellion against Yahweh. Did not even David expect Saul's men, such as Abner his commander, to listen to Saul and protect their master, even at a time when Saul was after David's life (1 Samuel 26)?
What about righteous Daniel who served under Chaldean kings who were not obedient to Yahweh? Did he rebel against the king, or did he listen to the king in all matters except what went against Yahweh's command?
It should therefore be clear that Yahweh does not authorise one under authority to rebel against one in authority on the ground that his superior does not listen to Yahweh. Yahweh allows/commands us to rebel only against those commands that conflict with his word to us! Therefore if a superior disobedient to Yahweh does not command us to disobey Yahweh we are to submit to his command!
Obey Yahweh Rather Than Men When Conflict In Commands Arises
Now besides that, the Tanakh has examples of rebellion being permitting against governments when they commit un-Yahwistic acts. Exodus 1:15-20, Joshua 2:1-18. This can be extrapolated back to a wife-beater, as what he is doing is most assuredly not something Yahweh approves of.
We are agreed that where Yahweh's word conflicts with another's word one is to obey Yahweh's word.
Does An Animal Have More Rights Under The Law Than A Woman Married To A Wife-Beater?
2. The Law is humane towards the treatment of chattle, or animals. Proverbs 12:10 also comes to mind. A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel. Do you mean to tell me that an animal has more rights under the Law than a woman married to a wife-beater?
When your life is in danger, FLEE! That was and is my consistent message!
Does A Slave Have More Rights Under The Law Than A Wife?
3. If a servant is injured by his master, then he is to be set free Exodus 21:26-27. Again, using comparison, you're telling me a SLAVE has more rights under the Law than a wife?
When your life is in danger, FLEE! Don't wait until you are physically disfigured to find out that your life is in danger. For Yah'shuah did not wait until he had been stoned to find out that his life was in danger. Once a situation arises whereby life is in danger the person whose life is threatened should FLEE!
Should A Wife Stay With Her Husband No Matter What?
Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
As a side note, I spoke to a woman a year ago who adhered to her preacher's command to "stay with the man no matter what." After he broke her jaw and sent her to the hospital, when she returned he beat her again and threatened to kill her. After talking to her a few hours, I suggested she get out of there.
When Your Life Is Threatened, FLEE!
I would have given the woman very similar advice to what you gave her. In fact, going by my comments above, I say that once life is threatened, the person whose life is threatened should FLEE! Don't wait to be physically disfigured. FLEE once the threat to your life is real! For that is Yah'shuah's example. That also is David's example when he fled from Saul.
Yah'shuah teaches us to love one another with the love that he loves us. A righteous and loving husband will not persecute or abuse his wife, physically or otherwise. Persecutions and abuses against one's wife are unrighteous actions. The article talks about a woman married to a DISOBEDIENT husband, not about what righteous husbands should do in treating their wives. The unrighteous actions of the disobedient certainly do not define what Yahweh commands people to do.
I hope you now understand me better.
Shalom
ISAAC
Should A Wife Endure Any Type Of Physical Beating At The Hands Of Her Husband?
Subject:
Re: A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:32:08 EDT
From:
Reader
To:
Isaac Aluochier
but the problem is I think that ANY type of beating, even if it's "minor" (if you can call it that), should cause some red flags to fly up in the woman's mind. The problem with "waiting" until it really gets bad is you don't know if the next time is going to be "the usual," or if the guy will end up beating you to death. When you're dealing with someone that, in the Scriptural sense is beating himself, you're dealing with a mind that is about as perverse of that of a homosexual or murderer. I can understand staying with a husband and trying to teach him, showing by example, etc etc., but in this case it seems next to impossible to "convert" them.
A Wife Should FLEE Once Her Husband Seeks To Kill Her
Subject:
Re: A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:21:17 +0100
From:
Isaac Aluochier
Organization:
Servants of Yahweh
To:
Reader
Shalom
As I said, Yah'shuah did not wait to be stoned before he fled from the Jews who sought to stone him. Once it was clear to him that they were about to carry out their heart's desire he took action. Likewise a wife should flee from her husband once it becomes clear that he seeks to kill her. She can ask Yahweh to open her eyes to see clearly whether her abusive husband has this intent in his heart. The signal might come from words uttered by her husband, seeing that out of the heart the mouth speaks. Therefore once it is clear that one's husband seeks to kill one, one should not wait to be physically disfigured or poisoned or etc., but should flee!
It Is Not Impossible To Convert An Abuser
I will not say that it is impossible to convert an abuser. For I know of one person whose heart was to kill believers and actually persecuted believers who was indeed converted. But it took Yah'shuah's intervention to do the job. I am talking of Paul, and his encounter with Yah'shuah while he was en-route to Damascus from Jerusalem. In other words, those whom Yahweh purposes to bring to Christ he indeed does so, even after they have done much harm to some of his children.
Shalom
ISAAC
Should A Physically Abused Wife Remain With Her Husband In Order To Convert Him To Righteousness?
Reader wrote:
In a message dated 10/28/1999 4:38:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Isaac Aluochier writes:
<< I will not say that it is impossible to convert an abuser. For I know of one person whose heart was to kill believers and actually persecuted believers who was indeed converted. But it took Yah'shuah's intervention to do the job. I am talking of Paul, and his encounter with Yah'shuah while he was en-route to Damascus from Jerusalem. In other words, those whom Yahweh purposes to bring to Christ he indeed does so, even after they have done much harm to some of his children. >>
also note it took a direct act of Yahweh to convert him. I couldn't possibly advise a woman who is being used as a punching bag to "wait it out" until the guy really wants to finish her off. Do you see the insanity in that?
What Is The Author Addressing?
Subject:
Re: A Difficult Teaching For Believing Wives
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:11:25 +0100
From:
Isaac Aluochier
Organization:
Servants of Yahweh
To:
Reader
Why are you asking me to address matters that are not what I have addressed? For when I have said that the signal that her husband desires to kill her can come from his words, or some other way Yahweh opens her eyes to see it, why do you suggest that I am saying that she must wait until she is being beaten to find out that it is time to flee?
ISAAC
Return to Servants of Yahweh Site Contents page.
© 1999, Isaac Aluochier, All rights reserved. Published by Servants of Yahweh, P O Box 78, Royston, SG8 7WF, United Kingdom. E-mail: servantsofyahweh@serveyahweh.org. Permission is hereby GRANTED to reproduce this and other publications in the Servants of Yahweh web site, http://www.serveyahweh.org, unless otherwise stated.
Financial contributions, payable to Servants of Yahweh, and sent to P O Box 78, Royston, SG8 7WF, United Kingdom, are welcome and gratefully received. These facilitate the effective distribution of the word Yahweh has given us, both in electronic and hard copy formats. Not all have easy access to the Internet and therefore cannot easily access our web site, http://www.serveyahweh.org, for this information where it is freely available. These need hard copies of the information published on our web site. Production and distribution of books and booklets is significantly more costly than publishing and distributing material over the Internet. In this regard your financial contributions, whether by way of tithes and/or freewill offerings, go a great way in disseminating the word Yahweh has given us to the people he wills it to reach. May Yahweh richly bless you for your financial contributions to Servants of Yahweh.