AUTHOR'S DETAILED RESPONSE TO READER'S THIRD WRITING
Does The Almighty Rule Out Punishment For Sin He Has
Forgiven?
READER:
Hi Isaac,
I agree that it seems
that we will have to agree to disagree agreeably. :-) How did you like that
tongue-twister? :-)
AUTHOR:
Matthew 5:27-30
reads,
'5:27"You have
heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery;' 5:28but I tell you
that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery
with her already in his heart. 5:29If your right eye causes you to stumble,
pluck it out and cast it from you. For it is profitable for you that one of
your members should perish, and not your whole body be cast into Gehinnom.
5:30If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from you:
for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not
your whole body go into Gehinnom.'
Is it therefore not
the case that some people, who had previously stumbled, do indeed enter into
life without portions of their body? Implying that though one is forgiven for
having stumbled (sinned), the penalty effected against them, the loss of a part
of their body, stands nevertheless? Such that a former adulteress who was
divorced by her husband, on account of her adultery, prior to her becoming a
believer, is forgiven by the Almighty of her sin of adultery, but nevertheless
continues living with the effect of the penalty against her?
READER:
In other words, God
didn't really forgive her because He is still going to exact punishment for her
past misdeeds??? But, if you say God didn't really forgive her, then God is a
liar because in His Word, He states repeatedly that He is always ready to
forgive us when we become a new creature in Christ.
King David's Adultery With Bat-Sheva
King David committed adultery with Uriyah's wife, Bat-Sheva. Their adultery resulted in Bat-Sheva conceiving a child.
Did The Almighty Forgive David When He Repented Of
His Adultery?
Did the Almighty forgive David when David eventually repented of his sin?
Did Not The Almighty Effect Punishment On David's
House Despite Having Forgiven Him?
It seems to me, noting the prophet Natan's clear words, that the Almighty indeed forgave David of his sin of adultery. Nevertheless, the Almighty also decreed that a penalty still had to be paid for the sin David committed. The child that was born to him and Bat-Sheva had to die! An innocent victim of the sin of the child's parents!
Was The Almighty A Liar For Effecting Punishment
Despite Having Forgiven?
Using your rationale above, you are branding the Almighty a liar for effecting a penalty against David for his sin of adultery, despite having forgiven him for that sin! For you are stating, using your rationale, that the Almighty, by effecting a penalty against David in the death of the child, did not really forgive David!
Does Not Scripture Affirm That The Almighty Never
Lies?
Yet it is evident that that Almighty is not a man that he should lie (1 Samuel 15:29). He never lies!
Change Your Faulty Understanding
It therefore appears that it is your understanding that is faulty here! It is your misunderstanding that needs to change!
But if you persist in your erroneous understanding you are indeed branding the Almighty a liar! For despite having stated that he forgave David for his sin of adultery, seeing that he still effected a penalty against David for his sin, you deem it that he did not forgive David!
The Account In 2 Samuel 12:1-25
2 Samuel 12:1-25 reads,
12:1Yahweh
sent Natan to David. He came to him, and said to him, "There were two men
in one city; the one rich, and the other poor. 12:2The
rich man had very many flocks and herds, 12:3but
the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and
raised. It grew up together with him, and with his children. It ate of his own
food, drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was to him like a
daughter. 12:4A traveler came to the
rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress
for the wayfaring man who had come to him, but took the poor man's lamb, and
dressed it for the man who had come to him."
12:5David's
anger was greatly kindled against the man, and he said to Natan, "As
Yahweh lives, the man who has done this is worthy to die! 12:6He shall restore the lamb fourfold, because
he did this thing, and because he had no pity!"
12:7Natan
said to David, "You are the man. This is what Yahweh, the Mighty One of
Yisra'el, says: 'I anointed you king over Yisra'el, and I delivered you out of
the hand of Sha'ul. 12:8I gave you
your master's house, and your master's wives into your bosom, and gave you the
house of Yisra'el and of Yahudah; and if that would have been too little, I
would have added to you many more such things. 12:9Why
have you despised the word of Yahweh, to do that which is evil in his sight?
You have struck Uriyah the Chittite with the sword, and have taken his wife to
be your wife, and have slain him with the sword of the children of `Ammon. 12:10Now therefore the sword will never depart
from your house, because you have despised me, and have taken the wife of Uriyah
the Chittite to be your wife.' 12:11This
is what Yahweh says: 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own
house; and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them to your
neighbor, and he will lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12:12For you did it secretly, but I will do
this thing before all Yisra'el, and before the sun.'"
12:13David
said to Natan, "I have sinned against Yahweh."
Natan said to David, "Yahweh also has put
away your sin. You will not die. 12:14However,
because by this deed you have given great occasion to Yahweh's enemies to
blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die." 12:15Natan departed to his house.
Yahweh struck the child that Uriyah's wife
bore to David, and it was very sick. 12:16David
therefore begged the Mighty One for the child; and David fasted, and went in,
and lay all night on the earth. 12:17The
Zakenim of his house arose, and stood beside him, to raise him up from the
earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. 12:18It happened on the seventh day, that the
child died. The servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead;
for they said, "Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him,
and he didn't listen to our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him
that the child is dead!"
12:19But
when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that
the child was dead; and David said to his servants, "Is the child
dead?"
They said, "He is dead."
12:20Then
David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his
clothing; and he came into the house of Yahweh, and worshipped: then he came to
his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he ate.
12:21Then
said his servants to him, "What thing is this that you have done? You did
fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead,
you did rise and eat bread."
12:22He
said, "While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, 'Who
knows whether Yahweh will not be gracious to me, that the child may live?' 12:23But now he is dead, why should I fast? Can
I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
12:24David
comforted Bat-Sheva his wife, and went in to her, and lay with her: and she
bore a son, and he called his name Shelomo. Yahweh loved him; 12:25and he sent by the hand of Natan the
prophet; and he named him Yedidyah, for Yahweh's sake.
HOW The Almighty Forgave David
It should also be noted from 12:13 how Yahweh forgave David of his sin of adultery. He would not die for his sin!
In other words, when Yahweh forgives one who has committed adultery, he forgives that one of the death penalty that the one incurs. Such that if an adulterous woman repents of her adultery, and seeks Yahweh's forgiveness, Yahweh forgives her of the death penalty she has incurred on account of her adultery. Yahweh does not necessarily rule out effecting other punishments against an adulterous offender, punishments that do not involve the death of the repentant offender!
A Forgiven Divorced Woman Must Still Not Marry Again
It is therefore faulty for one to argue that because Yahweh has forgiven an adulterous woman of her adultery, she is free to marry again! What Yahweh has forgiven her is the death penalty that she has incurred by her adultery. But Yahweh has not removed his requirement that a woman justly put away on account of her adultery marry not again. Even though she is forgiven with respect to her death penalty, she must still not marry again if her husband has already put her away on account of her adultery.
Is It Cruelty And Evil For An Unjustly Divorced
Woman Being Forbidden From Marrying Again?
AUTHOR:
This is what I understand
the Messiah meant by his comments in Matthew 5:31-32. The unjustly divorced
wife is driven into adultery by her sinning husband, thereby becoming an
adulteress.
And seeing that she
is called an adulteress in her new relationship, it is indeed implied that she
should not be involved in such a relationship. She should not marry again, for
her marriage to her sinning husband is still valid in the Almighty's eyes. Her
lot, because of her husband's sin against her, is therefore to live the life of
a righteous single woman. And she must continue to so live as a righteous
single woman until such time as either her husband repents of his sin against
her, or he dies, at which point she is freed from being under his authority,
and can marry again.
READER:
In other words, you
think God is going to very cruelly punish the victim of someone else's evil
actions by condemning them to a lifetime of loneliness??
How cruel and heartless
and loveless, and yes, evil.
It Is An Offending Husband, And Not The Almighty, Who
Punishes An Unjustly Divorced Wife
It is not the Almighty who is punishing the offended wife. It is her offending husband who is punishing her!
Why are you attributing to the Almighty the misdeeds of her offending husband? Why are you mixing up issues here?
Avshalom Rapes His Father's Wives
2 Samuel 16:20-23 reads,
16:20Then
said Avshalom to Achitofel, "Give your counsel what we shall do."
16:21Achitofel
said to Avshalom, "Go in to your father's concubines, that he has left to
keep the house; and all Yisra'el will hear that you are abhorred of your
father: then will the hands of all who are with you be strong."
16:22So
they spread Avshalom a tent on the top of the house; and Avshalom went in to
his father's concubines in the sight of all Yisra'el. 16:23The counsel of Achitofel, which he gave in
those days, was as if a man inquired at the oracle of the Mighty One: so was
all the counsel of Achitofel both with David and with Avshalom.
David's Raped Wives Confined To A Life Of Widowhood
Until Their Deaths
2 Samuel 20:3 reads,
20:3David
came to his house at Yerushalayim; and the king took the ten women his
concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in custody, and
provided them with sustenance, but didn't go in to them. So they were shut up
to the day of their death, living in widowhood.
Whose Cruelty Resulted In David's Raped Wives Being
Confined "To A Lifetime Of Loneliness"?
Seeing that David's concubines were raped by David's son, Avshalom, and were subsequently confined "to a lifetime of loneliness", would you also say that David was cruelly punishing these victims, his concubines, for Avshalom's evil actions against them? Was it David who was so punishing them? Or was it Avshalom's offence against them that resulted in their "lifetime of loneliness"?
The Law With Respect To One's Sexually Defiled Wife
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 reads,
24:1When
a man takes a wife, and marries her, then it shall be, if she find no favor in
his eyes, because he has found some unseemly thing in her, that he shall write
her a bill of divorce, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 24:2When she is departed out of his house, she
may go and be another man's wife. 24:3If
the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorce, and give it in
her hand, and send her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, who took
her to be his wife; 24:4her former
husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that
she is defiled; for that is abomination before Yahweh: and you shall not cause
the land to sin, which Yahweh your Mighty One gives you for an inheritance.
David Acted In Compliance With Yahweh's Law
It should therefore be evident that David was simply following this law recorded here above, of not having sex with a wife of his who has had sex with another man, for it is an abomination before Yahweh. In other words, the action David took with respect to his sexually defiled concubines was in compliance with Yahweh's law!
Is Yahweh Cruel For Having Such A Law?
Would you call David cruel for so abiding in Yahweh's law? Would you call Yahweh cruel for so having such a law, a law with the effect of confining David's concubines to a "lifetime of loneliness"?
To me Yahweh is loving and perfect. His law is loving and perfect.
Psalm 12:6 reads,
12:6The
words of Yahweh are flawless words,
As silver refined in a clay furnace, purified seven times.
Psalm 19:7-11 reads,
19:7The
law of Yahweh is perfect, restoring the soul.
The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making wise the simple.
19:8The
precepts of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart.
The commandment of Yahweh is pure, enlightening the eyes.
19:9The
fear of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever.
The ordinances of Yahweh are true, and righteous altogether.
19:10More
to be desired are they than gold, yes, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the extract of the honeycomb.
19:11Moreover
by them is your servant warned.
In keeping them there is great reward.
The Callous Are Those Who Do Not Delight In Yahweh's
Law
Psalm 119:70 reads,
119:70Their
heart is as callous as the fat,
But I delight in your law.
It should also be noted that the callous people are those who do not delight in Yahweh's law, those who do not do Yahweh's law.
Therefore, seeing that David took the action that he did with respect to confining his concubines "to a lifetime of loneliness", in obedience to the law, and seeing that this law is perfect, it is indeed the case David's action was founded on perfection or righteousness. And seeing that those who delight in the law and abide by it are not callous, David was not callous in his action of confining his concubines "to a lifetime of loneliness". And neither was Yahweh callous for so having this law, for his law is perfect.
Reader Attributes, By His False Doctrine,
Callousness, Cruelty And Evil To The Almighty
It therefore appears that your understanding on this matter is faulty. For when Yahweh prohibits an unjustly divorced woman from marrying again, and seeing that his words are perfect and not callous, it is indeed your understanding that is faulty when you call such an action callous, cruel, unloving or evil. In fact, you are, by these words, attributing callousness, cruelty and evil to the Almighty, for it is his law and words that you are criticising and so characterising!
Is it appropriate to attribute callousness, cruelty and evil to the Almighty? Is not this blasphemy against the Almighty?
[April 2000 View: The Law With Respect To One's
Sexually Defiled Wife
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 forbids a man from marrying again a former wife of his
who had sex with another man after ceasing to be his wife. It does not forbid a
man from having sex with an existing wife of his who has had sex with another
man while still his wife. It therefore appears that the basis of David's action
in not having sex with his wives (concubines) after they had had sex with
Avshalom was not founded on Deuteronomy 24:1-4 but on something else.]
What Is Love And Righteousness?
AUTHOR:
It should also be
noted that the Almighty imparts his Spirit to his children. And one of the
fruits of the Spirit is self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). It seems to me that
the Almighty will indeed impart such a woman, so sinned against by her husband,
adequate self-control to facilitate her living her life righteously as a single
woman. After all, the Almighty desires that all his children live righteously.
He therefore will make it possible for such a woman to live righteously before
him.
READER:
In other words, you
think God is going to very cruelly punish the victim of someone else's evil
actions by condemning them to a lifetime of loneliness??
How cruel and heartless
and loveless, and yes, evil.
What is love? What is righteousness?
Is it not abiding by the commandments or word of the Almighty?
Has The Reader, By His Words, Blasphemed Against The
Almighty?
And if I uphold the Almighty's word, as I think I am doing over here, is my upholding his word cruel, heartless, loveless and evil? Is the Almighty's word cruel, heartless, loveless and evil?
For if I am indeed right, and you are wrong, you will find yourself to have branded the Almighty's words and commands, and therefore the Almighty himself, as cruel, heartless, loveless and evil!
Who is greater - you or the Almighty? Whose word should prevail - yours or the Almighty's?
And is not such characterisation of the Almighty, and the Almighty's way, blasphemy against the Almighty?
Penalty Against Those Who Blaspheme Against The
Almighty
Matthew 12:30-37 reads,
12:30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who doesn't
gather with me, scatters. 12:31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be
forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 12:32Whoever speaks a
word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks
against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this world,
nor in that which is to come.
12:33"Either make the tree good, and its fruit good, or make
the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is known by its fruit. 12:34You offspring of
vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of
the heart, the mouth speaks. 12:35The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good
things, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil things. 12:36I tell you that
every idle word that men speak, they will give account of it in the day of
judgment. 12:37For by your words you will be justified, and by your words
you will be condemned."
Those Who Do Not Have The Almighty's Love In Them
John 5:37-44 reads,
5:37The Father himself, who sent me, has testified about me. You
have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 5:38You don't have his
word living in you; for whom he sent, him you don't believe. 5:39You search the
scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are
they which testify about me. 5:40Yet you will not come to me, that you may have life. 5:41I don't receive
glory from men. 5:42But I know you, that you don't have the Mighty One's love in
yourselves. 5:43I have come in my Father's name, and you don't receive me. If
another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 5:44How can you
believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that
comes from the only Mighty One?
John 8:42-47 reads,
8:42Therefore
Yah'shuah said to them, "If the Mighty One were
your Father, you would love me, for I came forth and have come from the Mighty
One. For neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 8:43Why don't you
understand my speech? Because you can't hear my word. 8:44You are of your
Father, the devil, and it is your desire to do the lusts of your father. He was
a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the truth, because there is
no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own; for he is a liar,
and the father of it. 8:45But because I tell the truth, you don't believe me. 8:46Which of you
convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 8:47He who is of the
Mighty One hears the words of the Mighty One. For this cause you don't hear,
because you are not of the Mighty One."
John 14:15 reads,
14:15If you love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 reads,
14:21Someone who has my commandments, and keeps them, that person
is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will
love him, and will reveal myself to him.
John 14:23-24 reads,
14:23Yah'shuah
answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my
word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with
him. 14:24He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which
you hear isn't mine, but the Father's who sent me.
John 15:9-10 reads,
15:9Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you.
Remain in my love. 15:10If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even
as I have kept my Father's commandments, and remain in his love.
John 15:12-14 reads,
15:12This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I
have loved you. 15:13Greater love has no one than this, that a man lay down his
life for his friends. 15:14You are my friends, if you do whatever I command you.
The World Hates The Messiah's Servants
John 15:17-21 reads,
15:17 I command these things to you, that you may love one
another. 15:18If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before
it hated you. 15:19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But
because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore
the world hates you. 15:20Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not
greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
If they kept my word, they will keep yours also. 15:21But all these
things will they do to you for my name's sake, because they don't know him who
sent me.
1 John 2:3-6 reads,
2:3This
is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments. 2:4He who says, "I know him," and
doesn't keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 2:5But whoever keeps his word, the Mighty One's
love has most assuredly been perfected in him. This is how we know that we are
in him: 2:6he who says he remains in
him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
1 John 2:15-17 reads,
2:15Don't
love the world, neither the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the
world, the Father's love isn't in him. 2:16For
all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the
pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's. 2:17The world is passing away with its lusts,
but he who does the Mighty One's will remains forever.
Those Who Love The Almighty's Children
1 John 5:2-3 reads,
5:2By
this we know that we love the children of the Mighty One, when we love the
Mighty One and do his commandments. 5:3For
this is the love of the Mighty One, that we keep his commandments. His
commandments are not grievous.
Those Who Abide In The Almighty's Love
It should therefore be evident from all these scriptural witnesses that the ones who abide in the word of the Almighty and the Messiah are the ones who do indeed possess love in their hearts. These are the ones who not only love the Almighty, but also love their brethren.
Abiding by the commandments of the Almighty is not lovelessness, cruelty, heartlessness and evil. It is the Almighty's love.
Has The Old Covenant Been Done Away With?
AUTHOR:
For the Almighty
gives them this gift of being able to live righteous single lives before him.
It should also be noted that there are eunuchs (single people) who are made
eunuchs by men. It seems that an unjustly divorced woman is a
"eunuch" who has been made a "eunuch" by a man, her
offending husband.
READER:
I don't think so. There
are no permanent physical losses caused by the divorcing husband; the woman is
quite capable of living a normal, happy life. You really have a very cruel and
callous attitude towards women. I think --- based on all that you have said in
our correspondences --- that you keep mixing ancient Old Testament Law and
traditions with the new and better New Testament Law. As the apostle Paul said
to those in his days that were trying to mix the two covenants together, you're
really much better off living under the New Testament of Grace than futilely
trying to be perfect and sinless living under the Old Covenant.
Has the Old Covenant been done away with? Have the laws that existed prior to the death of the Messiah been done away with?
The Messiah Did NOT Come To Destroy The Law And The
Prophets
Matthew 5:17-19 reads,
5:17Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I
didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. 5:18For most assuredly, I tell you, until Heaven and earth pass
away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass
away from the law, until all things are accomplished. 5:19Whoever, therefore,
shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall
be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them
shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Why Does The Reader Not Abide In The Messiah's Word?
Seeing that the Messiah has clearly stated that no portion of the law or the prophets would be done away with prior to the passing away of heaven and earth, still far into the future, why do you not abide in the Messiah's word? Why do you not acknowledge the validity of these laws under the Old Covenant, given to those they were applicable to?
The Messiah's Disciples In All Nations Are To Be
Taught All Things The Messiah Taught His Disciples
Matthew 28:18-20 reads,
28:18Yah'shuah
came to them and spoke to them, saying, "All
authority has been given to me in Heaven and on earth. 28:19Go, and make
disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the
Son and of the Holy Spirit, 28:20teaching them to observe all things which I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the
age."
What The Messiah's Servants Should Be Teachings His
Disciples The World Over
Seeing that the Messiah commanded his disciples to teach the disciples they would make of all nations to observe all things that he commanded them, and seeing that he commanded them in Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 that lawfully married wives put away by the husbands are not to marry again, should not this be what the Messiah's servants teach disciples all over the world?
Why Is The Reader Not Abiding In The Messiah's
Words?
Why are you not abiding by the Messiah's words? Is it that his love does not abide in you? Is it that you elevate your own opinions above his own clear words? Is it that you despise his words to do your own contrary words?
Author Corrects Erroneous Impression Of The Reader
AUTHOR:
Also, it does not
appear to be the case that the life of a single person is necessarily a
miserable, lonely and frustrating one.
READER:
From those words you
just uttered, I can tell immediately that you have never experienced or enjoyed
the incredible beauty and love and intimacy and caring and sharing of a
"soulmate" marriage between two souls united together as one before
God! I shared such a relationship with my late wife for over 26 years, and
believe me, after living such a beautiful life with her, these last 16 months
have vividly demonstrated to me just how lonely and incomplete a single
person's life is. That is why God said that Adam needed an Eve.
While I sympathise with you with respect to the loss of your wife of 26 years, I feel compelled to say that your analysis about me is wrong! For I have experienced and enjoyed "beauty and love and intimacy and caring and sharing of a 'soulmate' marriage between two souls united together as one before" the Almighty, though for less than 26 years.
Was The Messiah Called To A Life Of Human Marriage
When He Came As A Human Being?
AUTHOR:
Was not the Messiah
single? Was he miserable, lonely and frustrated?
READER:
He was God, with a
special, unique ministry mission. And He left earth at the age of 33 or 34.
By stating that the Messiah died young, are you suggesting that if he had lived to be much older he would surely have married?
What about his words in Matthew 19:10-12, that some make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven - those so given this gift of living single lives? Did not the Messiah show, by these words, that singlehood is not necessarily a life of misery, loneliness and frustration? Or will you suggest that those who are single for the sake of the kingdom still live miserable, lonely and frustrated lives?
Who Is Forcing Unjustly Divorced Wives Into A Life
Of Singleness?
AUTHOR:
Was not Paul single?
Was he miserable, lonely and frustrated? Just because one is single does not
necessarily mean that that one's life is miserable, lonely or frustrating.
READER:
Paul voluntarily chose
to be single; that was his choice. It is an entirely different matter to force
unwilling victims into a lifetime of singleness against their will when they
have done nothing wrong.
Who is forcing unjustly divorced wives into a life of singleness? The righteous Almighty, or their offending husbands?
The guilty party is their offending husbands, and not those who faithfully preach the Almighty's words!
The Almighty Allows Unjust Suffering
AUTHOR:
The issue here is not
the Almighty being unjust or unfair to the wife. It is about the offending
husband being unjust and unfair to his wife, by unjustly and unfairly divorcing
her.
READER:
Yes, but you're trying
to say that God wants to further punish her with a lifestyle He did not intend
for people to have just because her former husband sinned.
It is not the Almighty who punishes the unjustly divorced wife. It is her offending husband who unjustly punishes her. Nevertheless, the Almighty allows it. Also, the Almighty has promised such offended wives who believe in the Messiah his kingdom and eternal life. The Almighty will indeed reward them for their unjust suffering in this world.
Is The Author Trying To Force A Cruel Lifestyle Onto
Other People?
AUTHOR:
Matthew 5:10-12
reads,
'5:10"Blessed
are those who have been persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the
Kingdom of Heaven.
5:11"Blessed are
you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against
you falsely, for my sake.
5:12"Rejoice,
and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in Heaven. For that is how
they persecuted the prophets who were before you.'
It should therefore
be clear that righteous people do indeed suffer unjustly in this world, and the
Almighty allows them to suffer. He is not unjust or unfair for allowing them to
so suffer. He has instead promised to reward them for their unjust suffering,
promising them his kingdom.
READER:
We're talking here in
this passage about people being persecuted for their faith and belief in
Christ. You, instead, are trying to force cruel lifestyles onto people because
of someone else's sin --- an entirely different matter.
How am I "trying to force cruel lifestyles onto people because of someone else's sin"?
Faithfully presenting the Messiah's teachings is not forcing cruelty onto people. The Messiah's teachings are not cruel. Did not John say that the Almighty's commandments are not burdensome? So why are you characterising an accurate representation of the Almighty's and the Messiah's teachings as cruel?
It appears that you do not know the Almighty, nor abide in his words! It appears that you are not really the Messiah's disciple. For the Messiah's disciples do indeed abide in his word.
Are Husbands Masters Over Their Wives?
AUTHOR:
The Almighty has
established an authority structure in the family, with the man being head over
his wife. Even as the Messiah is head over his household of believers.
(Ephesians 5:25-33.)
And just as a
believer in the Messiah's household has no authority from the Almighty to remove
himself or herself from the Messiah's household, and enter into another one, so
also does a wife have no authority from the Almighty to remove herself from her
husband's authority and come under the authority of another man.
A believer can, in
contravention of the Almighty's word, separate himself or herself from the
Messiah. Even as a wife can, in contravention of the Almighty's word, separate
herself from her husband. But the point is that such actions have no authority
from the Almighty. Those who do such things are therefore not walking in the
Almighty's righteousness.
READER:
Your very big problem is
that you are trying to make your unbiblical principle of dominance and
callousness over woman as the ultimate, autonomous principle in life that takes
absolute precedence over every other moral commandment in the Bible. Believe me,
God meant it when He said that He judges men and women the exact same way in
moral issues. Christian husbands may be the spiritual leaders of their wives
and family, but they are not masters who lord it over their second-class wives
whose status is almost akin to that of slaves or property. I really am
disturbed that you really seem to believe that women can be punished for the
sins of their husbands.
What do you say of Peter's teaching in 1 Peter 3:1-6, which reads,
3:1In
like manner, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; so that, even if any
don't obey the Word, they may be gained by the behavior of their wives without
a word; 3:2seeing your pure behavior
in fear. 3:3Let your beauty be not
just the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold,
or of putting on fine clothing; 3:4but
in the hidden person of the heart, in the incorruptible adornment of a humble
and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of the Mighty One of great value. 3:5For this is how the holy women before, who
hoped in the Mighty One, also adorned themselves, being in subjection to their
own husbands: 3:6as Sarah obeyed
Avraham, calling him master, whose children you now are, if you do well, and
are not put in fear by any terror.
Wives Are To Be Subject To Their Husbands, Including
Unbelieving Husbands
Are not wives to be in subjection to their husbands, including unbelieving husbands? Or do you say that their unbelieving husbands are their spiritual leaders?
The Almighty's Order In The Family
The truth of the matter is that wives are to submit to their husbands in everything that does not contravene the word of the Almighty. This is the Almighty's order in the family. And anyone advocating the Almighty's order for the family is not making wives "slaves or property". After all, Sarah was a free woman and not a slave. Yet she recognised the authority of her husband, and submitted to him. And as believing wives are to be like Sarah, it is indeed evident that your views are not in harmony with the Almighty's word!
The Messiah Encounters An Adulterous Woman In
Samaria
AUTHOR:
Whose word should
hold sway? Human words or the Almighty's words?
Should the Almighty's
words in Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 hold sway, that it is adultery to marry
a woman unjustly divorced or put away? Or should contrary human words hold
sway?
Who is greater - the
Almighty or human beings? Especially human beings speaking contrary words?
READER:
Look, you really have a
problem acknowledging reality. Now I would agree with you that a man should not
divorce his wife without just, biblical cause, but if he disobeys God by doing
so, then the woman is single whether you think she is or not. Now, I would
agree with you that God would believe that they shouldn't have gotten divorced,
but the reality is that the husband exercised his God-given gift of freewill by
getting an unjust divorce. So, why punish the woman for the sins of the sinning
husband? Don't you think that is just a little bit unfair? (When Jesus told the
woman at the well in Samaria that she had several husbands, He was correct in
saying so because she and all of her husbands were living in an unrepentant
state. That is not the same thing as our hypothetical example where a believer
is unfairly divorced by an unbeliever because the believer has done nothing
wrong, and therefore should not be punished for the sins of someone else.)
John 4:16-18 reads,
4:16Yah'shuah
said to her, "Go, call your husband, and
come here."
4:17The
woman answered, "I have no husband."
Yah'shuah said to her, "You said well, 'I have no husband,' 4:18for you have had
five husbands; and he whom you now have is not your husband. This
you have said truly."
It should be noted that the woman understood that in a strict legal sense she was not living with her husband, though it appeared that she was living with a husband, for she was living with a man. In other words, just because a woman is living with a man as husband and wife does not automatically mean that they are married in the strict legal sense - legal according to the Almighty's law.
Even though the Messiah asked her to call her husband, he knew that the man he was then living with as her husband was not really her husband. For he so acknowledged in his reply to the woman. Therefore, even though in ordinary usage the Messiah referred to that man as her husband, as human beings generally refer to a man and a woman living together as husband and wife, in the strict legal sense the man the woman was living with was not her husband. Therefore just because a man and a woman are living together does not automatically mean that they are husband and wife, despite purporting to be so.
Those who are truly husbands and wives are those so deemed by the Almighty.
Why Is The Reader Teaching Brethren Not To Have
Fellowship With The Almighty?
AUTHOR:
It is my view that
the Almighty gives no option to believers not to be reconciled to one another.
For Matthew 5:23-24 shows that failure to reconcile with one's brother
frustrates one's fellowship with the Almighty. And if one no longer has
fellowship with the Almighty they are no longer a disciple of the Messiah!
READER:
There is a huge difference
between "forgiveness" and "reconciliation." We should
forgive, but that doesn't mean a Christian has to reconcile back into a
marriage they don't want for any number of reasons.
Whose word should prevail - the Almighty's or yours? The Almighty shows, in Matthew 5:23-24, that brethren must reconcile in order to maintain fellowship with him. But you say that they do not need to reconcile. Are you therefore telling brethren that it is okay if they do not have fellowship with the Almighty? Can you really be of the Almighty when you encourage brethren not to strive to remain in the Almighty's fellowship?
The Reader's Words Conflict With The Messiah's Words
AUTHOR:
Should lawfully
married people, who are also believers, deny themselves from one another? Can
believers simply decide to sever their marriage on a ground not including
sexual immorality?
READER:
Yes. It is not a sin to
divorce someone unless you re-marry or otherwise have sex with someone. The
scriptures teach that adultery is committed only if you re-marry or engage in
sex.
It is indeed evident that your words conflict with the Messiah's clear words in Matthew 5:32. For you are saying that it is not sin for a husband to make his wife an adulteress! Is not adultery sin?
Seeing that your words conflict with those of the Messiah I conclude that you are not abiding in the Messiah! Your doctrine is not the Messiah's doctrine, but conflicts with the Messiah's doctrine!
ISAAC
[To read the latest views, as of the time of this writing, of the person corresponding with the author in this exchange, click on the following link http://www.frankcaw.com/letters2.html.]
Return to Servants of Yahweh Site Contents page.
© 1999-2000, Isaac Aluochier, All rights reserved. Published by Servants of
Yahweh,