Did Laban Have Authority To Limit The Wives That Jacob
Could Marry?
Shalom
I will respond in the body of your text.
Shalom:
My computer had
contracted a virus and my hard drive was wiped out, where I probably had a site
that could produce a Ketubah for you. I suggest that you try some Jewish sites,
and you will be able to obtain one.
I'm not sure if the mail
that I tried to send earlier arrived but the precedence for limiting a
husband's wives was set in Gen. 31:50. Who gave Laban that authority?
Lavan's Comments To Yaakov Were Devoid Of The Mighty
One's Authority
Genesis 31:24 reads,
'31:24The
Mighty One came to Lavan, the Arammian, in a dream of the night, and said to
him, "Take heed to yourself that you don't speak to Ya`akov either good or
bad."'
Genesis 31:29 reads,
"31:29It
is in the power of my hand to hurt you, but the Mighty One of your father spoke
to me last night, saying, 'Take heed to yourself that you don't speak to
Ya`akov either good or bad.'"
It should therefore be clearly understood that whatever Lavan spoke to Yaakov was NEITHER good nor bad. In other words, Lavan did not have the Mighty One's authority to speak anything to Yaakov. What he had was a restriction. Lavan's words to Yaakov THEREFORE did not have the Mighty One's authority. And, more so, they indeed could not have had the Mighty One's authority, for the Mighty One specifically charged him not to speak good to Yaakov. And since the Mighty One is "good", and he charged Lavan not to speak good to Yaakov, Lavan's words to Yaakov DID NOT have the Mighty One's authority.
Lavan's Covenant With Yaakov Does Not Bind Anyone Else
Genesis 31:44 reads,
'31:44Now
come, let us make a covenant, you and I; and let it be for a witness between me
and you."'
As Lavan proposed to Yaakov that they enter into a covenant, and it is clear that the Mighty One did not give Lavan authority to speak either good or bad to Yaakov, it should be understood that this covenant originated with Lavan, and DID NOT originate with the Mighty One. And seeing that it was a "neutral" covenant, neither good nor bad, its terms OUGHT NOT to bind anyone other than Lavan and Yaakov. For it did not have the Mighty One's authority, and therefore should not be made by anyone to bind anyone else!
Therefore Lavan's words to Yaakov in Genesis 31:48-50,
'Therefore it was named Gal`ed 31:49and Mitzpah, for he said, "Yahweh
watch between me and you, when we are absent one from another. 31:50If you will afflict my daughters, and if
you will take wives besides my daughters, no man is with us; behold, the Mighty
One is witness between me and you."
- do not bind anyone other than Lavan and Yaakov. And seeing that both are dead, that covenant died with them!
Genesis 31:50 Does Not Give A Wife Authority To Prevent
Her Husband From Marrying An Additional Wife
Genesis 31:50 therefore CANNOT correctly be used as scriptural authority for a wife preventing her husband from marrying another woman!
In fact, Genesis 31:50 is a record of a portion of an agreement between Yaakov and Lavan, not between Yaakov and any of his wives! So how does Genesis 31:50 give a wife authority over her husband, when neither of Yaakov's wives was party to this agreement between their husband and their father?
And if it was the case that Yaakov's wives had authority to prevent their husband from marrying other women, why did not Leah prevent Yaakov from marrying Rachel? Why didn't Leah prevent Yaakov from marrying Rachel's maid? Why didn't Rachel prevent Yaakov from marrying Leah's maid? And why did Lavan speak in the manner that he did in Genesis 31:50, indicating that it was wholly within Yaakov's RIGHT to marry other wives?
The scriptural evidence is CLEAR! Yaakov indeed had authority to marry wives without any of his wives having veto power over him! That he voluntarily entered into an agreement with Lavan, an agreement that was not authorised by the Mighty One, does not prove that wives have authority over their husbands with respect to their husbands taking additional wives or not. The agreement Yaakov entered into with Lavan was typical of any agreement between two people, an agreement that does not have the Mighty One's authority, but is nevertheless adhered to by the parties to the agreement.
Does A Wife Have Power To Limit The Number Of Wives Her
Husband Can Have?
I will also ask you the
question, where in the scripture does it say that a wife CANNOT limit the
number of wives that her husband has? Since marriage is by contract, either
party can enter whatever stipulations ... they please into the contract, and if
in disagreement, the other party does not have to accept the terms.
Marriage Should Be Based On The Mighty One's Word
If a marriage is based on the Mighty One's word, based on Scripture, it must be fully compliant with it. Such a marriage cannot place a wife in a position that is prohibited her by Scripture, and also cannot deny a husband the rights bestowed upon him by the Mighty One. A marriage that is not fully compliant with Scripture cannot be said to be in harmony with the Mighty One's word.
A Man Has Authority Over His Wife
Seeing that Scripture places the man as head over his wife, meaning greater in authority, how can the wife then have authority over the man - such as by your assertion that she has veto power over whether or not he may marry another wife? It would be useful to this discussion if you could produce a case supported by the Mighty One where a wife vetoed her husband's prospective action in marrying another wife.
A Wife Vetoing Her Husband From Marrying Additional
Wives Potentially Violates Yahweh's Word
You should also note that this assertion of yours, if implemented, would prevent the application of some of the Mighty One's laws. For example, if a wife had vetoed her husband marrying his late brother's widow, yet according to Yahweh's law the husband was to marry his late brother's widow, would not such a man find himself not complying with Yahweh's word, simply because he is complying with his wife's word contrary to Yahweh's word? And where a person is to choose between obeying man and obeying Yahweh, should not a person obey Yahweh? Adherence to this postulation of yours is FUNDAMENTALLY faulty, for it does not allow a husband to fully abide by Yahweh's word!
Is not this the reason why Yahweh punished Adam, in that he had listened to his wife in a matter contrary to Yahweh's word?
Genesis 3:17-19 reads,
'3:17To
Adam he said, "Because you have listened to your wife's voice, and have
eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it,'
cursed is the ground for your sake. In toil you will eat of it all the days of
your life. 3:18Thorns also and
thistles will it bring forth to you; and you will eat the herb of the field. 3:19By the sweat of your face will you eat
bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For you are
dust, and to dust you shall return."'
Yahweh Will Punish Husbands Who Abdicate Their
Yahweh-Given Authority
Following this postulation of yours is no different to Adam listening to the voice of his wife in a matter contrary to Yahweh's word. And just as Yahweh punished Adam for not upholding the role meant for him in his marriage, so will husbands who abdicate their Yahweh-given authority also be appropriately punished. Such husbands should repent of placing their wives as head over them, and should reassert their authority within their families that Yahweh has given to them.
A Wife Is To Be Ruled Over By Her Husband
Did not the Mighty One tell Havah that she was to be ruled over by her husband?
Genesis 3:16 reads,
'3:16To
the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In
pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and
he will rule over you."'
Yahweh's family order is very clear. The husband is head over his wife, and the wife is not head over her husband, even if she desires to usurp her husband's position!
Your postulation giving the wife authority over her husband is typical of Havah's action, and teaches husbands to be wimps - meaning those who abdicate their Yahweh-given responsibility! With Adam and Havah's clear scriptural example, how can I endorse the very sin they committed if I am to uphold Yahweh's word? Why are you asking human beings to repeat the sin of Adam and Havah? Have you not learned from Adam and Havah, and the consequences experienced as a result of their sin?
Change this erroneous view and teaching of yours! Repent of it!
What If A Husband Has Already Vowed Not To Marry An
Additional Wife?
What also is the Bride
Price that the men in your assembly pay for their brides?
An individual to whom I
also sent the same letters sent to you, indicated, that if a man has already
married, using the customary vow to "forsake all others", he is bound
to that vow, he cannot take an additional wife, or by doing so he 1) has broken
a VOW, which YHWH commands us not to do, and 2) he makes himself a LIAR. Rev.
22:15 says those caught 'making a lie' will not be allowed into the kingdom!
Seems like it is likely, that some of your polygynous men have some rereading
of scriptures and repenting to do! They must remember that Malachi says they
are not to deal treacherously with their wives!
Vowing And The Validity Of Vows
In Numbers 30 Yahweh gave his commandment concerning vowing and the validity of vows.
Numbers 30:2 reads,
"30:2When
a man vows a vow to Yahweh, or swears an oath to bind his soul with a bond, he
shall not break his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his
mouth."
Is A Vow Contrary To Yahweh's Will Valid?
One might ask, if a man vows to Yahweh a vow that is not in harmony with Yahweh's will, does that vow stand? Or if he swears an oath to bind his soul with a bond in a manner out of harmony with Yahweh's will, does that oath bind his soul?
For guidelines, the rest of Numbers 30 gives us pointers to answering these questions.
Fathers Have Authority To Veto The Vows Of Their
Unmarried Daughters
Numbers 30:3-5 shows that a father has authority to veto the vow or oath of her unmarried daughter living in his house, thus clearly showing that an unmarried daughter is answerable to her father. We do not have a like case where Yahweh gives veto powers to unmarried daughters living in their fathers' houses over their fathers. It is therefore clear that an unmarried daughter living in her father's house is answerable to her father, and not vice versa.
A Husband Has Authority To Veto The Vows Of His Wife
Numbers 30:6-8 likewise shows that a husband has veto powers over his wife, but does not give a wife like veto powers over her husband. It should therefore be clear than within a household the head of household is the man - husband and/or father, and not a woman - wife or unmarried daughter.
Those In Authority Can Ratify Or Veto Vows Made By Those
Under Their Authority
Numbers 30:13-15 reads,
"30:13Every
vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it,
or her husband may make it void. 30:14But
if her husband altogether hold his shalom at her from day to day, then he establishes
all her vows, or all her bonds, which are on her: he has established them,
because he held his shalom at her in the day that he heard them. 30:15But if he shall make them null and void
after that he has heard them, then he shall bear her iniquity."
It is therefore clear that the principle established by this command of Yahweh is that the one in authority in a given domain has authority to ratify or veto a vow or oath made by one under that one's authority.
Yahweh Can Ratify Or Veto The Vows Made By A Man
With respect to a man who is a head of household, his authority or head is Yahweh. His vows or oaths are either ratified or vetoed by Yahweh, just as the man ratifies or vetoes the vows or oaths of those under his authority in his household. And just as the man ratifies or vetoes the vows or oaths of those under his authority according to his will, so also does Yahweh ratify or veto the man's oaths, as the man is under Yahweh's authority.
Vows Contrary To Yahweh's Will Do Not Stand
Therefore, if the man vows a vow or swears an oath that is not out of harmony with Yahweh's will, Yahweh will ratify that vow or oath. But if a man vows a vow or swears an oath that is out of harmony with Yahweh's will, Yahweh will veto that vow or oath. Such a vow or oath that is not in harmony with Yahweh's will does not stand!
How May One Ascertain Yahweh's Will?
Now how may one know the vow or oath that is not in harmony with Yahweh's will?
Where Yahweh has expressly or impliedly said so in his word - such as in the Scriptures or in other communication from Yahweh, that a particular course of action is not in harmony with his will, a such vow or oath contrary to Yahweh's will is vetoed or negated. It does not stand.
Can A Man's Vow To Remain Monogamous Stand Before
Yahweh?
What about marriage? Can a man's vow to remain monogamous stand before Yahweh?
It appears to me, going by Yahweh's command to Lavan prior to his speaking to Yaakov when pursuing the latter, that such a vow is neither good nor bad. It is not necessarily in harmony with Yahweh's will, nor is it necessarily against Yahweh's will. Such a vow can indeed be ratified, provided it is not against Yahweh's will in the specific circumstances that that vow is made.
For example, where Yahweh wills that a husband marry his late brother's widow, any vow by that husband not to marry another woman is voided by Yahweh. Or where Yahweh wills that a husband marry additional wives, as in the case of king David, any vow such a husband may make not to marry another woman is voided by Yahweh. But where Yahweh had no objection to such a husband making such a vow, as in the case of polygynous Yaakov, such a vow stands before Yahweh.
The Validity Of A Man's Vow Depends On Yahweh's Specific
Will For Him
It therefore appears that in the case of a husband marrying additional wives, the validity of a vow not to marry an additional wife is dependent on Yahweh's specific will for that man. If Yahweh wills that the man marry an additional wife in future, any vow the husband makes not to so marry is voided by Yahweh. But if Yahweh has no specific will that the man marries an additional wife in future, the man's vow not to marry an additional wife, or any wife for that matter, may indeed stand.
After all, not all men are called by Yahweh to be polygynous. Some are called to a life of being eunuchs. Others are called to a life of being monogamous. While yet others are called to a life of being polygynous. And even among the polygynous, Yahweh calls various ones among these to have so many wives.
Seek Yahweh To Ascertain His Will For You
Personally, and this is strictly a personal view, I would say the following. If a man does not know Yahweh's will for his life, he should seek Yahweh to ascertain what Yahweh wills for him. And, after having ascertained Yahweh's will for him, he should strive to remain faithful to Yahweh's will for him. If he does not yet know Yahweh's will for him, he should play it safe, and avoid rash words, whereby he might attempt to bind himself to a particular marital state prior to seeking Yahweh's will. Therefore men who do not yet know Yahweh's will for themselves should avoid making vows as to their future marital state.
Do Not Impose Your Will On Another Person, Especially
One Not Under Your Authority
Likewise, one should not attempt to impose one's will on another person, especially on a person who is not under one's authority - such as a wife attempting to impose her will on her husband by getting him to vow that he will not marry another wife. For such meddling in someone else's life might be found to be contrary to Yahweh's will. Just as Havah meddled in Adam's life, by getting him to act contrary to Yahweh's will for Adam. It is therefore prudent for one, including a wife, to allow Yahweh's will to prevail, rather than insist on imposing her will on a particular situation, especially considering the probability that her will might be contrary to Yahweh's will. What one should do in such circumstances is to seek Yahweh's will and abide faithfully by it. One should subjugate one's will to Yahweh's will, rather than try to impose one's will irrespective of Yahweh's will in the circumstances.
Is A Man A Liar For Breaking A Vow Contrary To Yahweh's
Will?
Concerning a man having made a vow whereby he was not to marry an additional wife, and subsequently learns that Yahweh had voided that vow, such a man IS NOT a liar for breaking his vow. His vow did not stand in the first place, for it was not ratified by Yahweh. For vows of those under authority do not stand until such time as they are ratified or voided. Therefore, as the man, being under Yahweh's authority, did not have his vow ratified by Yahweh, his vow did not stand before Yahweh, despite the man thinking that it was valid. For the man, in making that vow, had not sought out Yahweh's will.
Ascertain Yahweh's Will For Your Life
It is therefore my view that men contemplating making such vows should initially seek Yahweh's will for their lives, and ascertain Yahweh's will for their lives. They should then be careful not to act in a manner contrary to Yahweh's will in their lives. But if Yahweh takes his time in answering such a man who has sought Yahweh's will, such a man should, in patience, refrain from making the proposed vow. It is better to be safe with Yahweh, and exercise patience in the process of ascertaining Yahweh's will and acting within it. Rather than impatiently acting out of one's will, or acquiescing to a wife or prospective wife's will.
People Who Break Vows Contrary To Yahweh's Will Are Not
Automatically Excluded From Yahweh's Kingdom
To reiterate, just as a wife or unmarried daughter is not a liar for having her vow or oath voided by one in authority over her, so also is a man not a liar for having his vow or oath voided by the one in authority over him. It is therefore inappropriate for you to use Revelation 22:15 to argue that such men will not be in Yahweh's kingdom!
Do Men Who Marry Additional Wives Violate Malachi
2:13-16?
Concerning Yahweh's words in Malachi, and your suggestions that men who might have vowed not to marry additional wives, and subsequently married additional wives, are being treacherous to their first wives, it would be appropriate if you took all these words in Malachi in context.
Malachi 2:13-16 reads,
"2:13This
again you do: you cover the altar of Yahweh with tears, with weeping, and with
sighing, because he doesn't regard the offering any more, neither receives it
with good will at your hand. 2:14Yet
you say, Why? Because Yahweh has been witness between you and the wife of your
youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion,
and the wife of your covenant. 2:15Did
he not make one, although he had the residue of the Spirit? Why one? He sought
a righteous seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal
treacherously against the wife of his youth. 2:16For
I hate putting away, says Yahweh, the Mighty One of Yisra'el, and him who
covers his garment with violence, says Yahweh-Tzva'ot: therefore take heed to
your spirit, that you don't deal treacherously."
Why Yahweh Does Not Regard The Offering Of The People
Malachi 2:14 explains why Yahweh does not regard the offering of the people. Because they had been, individually, treacherous to the wife of their youth, their companion, the wife of their covenant. Nevertheless, this verse does not state HOW the husbands had been treacherous to their wives. Verses 15 and 16 give the answer.
Why Yahweh Unites A Husband And A Wife
Malachi 2:15 gives a reason for Yahweh uniting a husband and a wife - the wife of his youth. It is for bearing righteous seed. Implying that Yahweh does not desire unrighteous seed, or bastards, but desires children born to those who are married to one another.
The Treachery Of Husbands To Wives
Malachi 2:16 shows the treachery of these husbands to their wives. They put them away - … thereby breaking the unity that Yahweh had made between the husband and the wife!
In other words, a stipulation of the marriage covenant is that the husband ought not to [put away] his wife in a manner out of harmony with Yahweh's will. Yet these men [put away] their wives in a manner contrary to Yahweh's will. And by having breached Yahweh's will in this matter Yahweh stopped regarding their offerings.
The issue here is NOT a husband taking an additional wife. It is about a husband wrongly [putting away] the wife of his youth.
It therefore appears that if a husband does not [put away] the wife of his youth, and marries an additional wife or wives, he is not breaking the oneness that Yahweh made between him and his wife. He is therefore not acting treacherously against his wife of his youth, if he continues to remain married to her, and fulfils for her what he ought, as per Yahweh's requirements.
Breaking A Vow Contrary To Yahweh's Will Is Not
Treachery
It is therefore inappropriate for you to equate with treachery the invalidation by Yahweh of a vow of a husband, a vow whereby he undertook not to marry an additional wife, yet had not sought out Yahweh's will to ascertain whether such a vow was in harmony with Yahweh's will for him. Such a husband can marry an additional wife whereby it is Yahweh's will for him to do so, and he will not be acting treacherously against his first wife, provided he does not [put away] his first wife….
Concerning things not
specifically mentioned in the scriptures, you will find, how to circumcise, how
to kill animals in a kosher fashion (do you teach avoiding eating of blood, and
consume only Kosher-type meat?), how to immerse, for conversion, Niddah, and many
other things, because it was expected that the individuals would be acquainted
with certain traditions, customs that every detail need not be spelled out.
Remember in Acts 15, the gentiles went to the synagogue every Sabbath and there
learned the traditions and customs that were not specifically spelled out in
the texts.
So just because a
certain custom did not appear detailed in full in the Bible, does not mean that
it did not exist. (By the way, how DO you immerse an individual wanting to join
your assembly? Is it by the heathen/pagan method wherein the "minister
dunks the candidate"?)
When I used the term
'lust' after another wife, I was not referring to the commandment against
adultery. I was using it in the same context as Messiah in that when a man
"looks at a woman and lusts for her" it is considered to be adultery.
What is adultery?
Is it not the faithlessness of a wife against her husband, and the participation of anyone else in that faithlessness? Such that a man commits adultery by causing a woman to break faith with her husband, or if he rapes a married woman, thereby causing the married woman to unwillingly break faith with her husband?
A man having sex with an unmarried woman does not commit adultery. It is fornication, but not adultery.
Penalty For Committing Adultery
Where adultery is committed the penalty for it provided by the Law is death. If both the man and the woman were willing participants, then both are killed. If the man raped the married woman, then only the man is killed.
But if a man entices a virgin who is not married (betrothed), he has not caused the unmarried woman to breach faith with her husband, for she has no husband. The man is not killed, but is compelled to pay the bride price for virgins and to marry the woman if her father does not object. And even where a man rapes an unmarried woman, he is still not killed, but compelled to pay bride price for virgins, among other requirements.
It should therefore be clear that adultery is the faithlessness of a wife against her husband, whether willingly or forcibly - as in rape. And the man participating in this adultery, whether willingly or forcibly, is an adulterer.
Desiring Another Wife Is Not Adultery
Seeing the definition of adultery, it should be clear a man can only commit adultery by looking at a woman lustfully if the woman that he so looks after lustfully is a married woman! If the woman that he looks after lustfully is not married, then he does not commit adultery. He is guilty of non-adultery fornication and for lust (covetousness). But not for adultery. For adultery can only be committed where a married woman is involved!
It is therefore not adultery for a married man to desire - correct marital desire - another wife, even as he desired his first wife. Provided this additional wife that he desires is not a married woman. If the additional wife desired is an unmarried woman, then the man does not commit adultery and is seen to be acting within Yahweh's law, especially if it is Yahweh's will that he marries an additional wife.
Did David Marry All Of Saul's Widows?
I need to close for now,
but I will comment more on your questions tomorrow, but do you think David had
sexual intercourse with ALL OF SAULS WIVES?!?!? Your answer will indicate how
much true Bible law that you really know!
David Did Not Marry All Of Saul's Widows
David, to the best of my knowledge, DID NOT have "sexual intercourse with ALL OF SAUL'S WIVES"!
For starters, David married one of Saul's daughters. Under Yahweh's laws pertaining to sexual relations, in Leviticus 18, he could not have been married to both a daughter and her mother.
Leviticus 18:17 reads,
"18:17You
shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter; you shall not take
her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they
are near kinswomen: it is wickedness."
There is also another of Saul's wives that Abner took to himself after Saul's death, and had a dispute concerning her with one of Saul's sons.
2 Samuel 2:8-10 reads,
"2:8Now
Aviner the son of Ner, captain of Sha'ul's host, had taken Ish-Boshet the son
of Sha'ul, and brought him over to Machanayim; 2:9and
he made him king over Gil`ad, and over the Ashuri, and over Yizre`el, and over
Efrayim, and over Binyamin, and over all Yisra'el. 2:10Ish-Boshet, Sha'ul's son, was forty years old when he
began to reign over Yisra'el, and he reigned two years. But the house of
Yahudah followed David."
2 Samuel 3:6-11 reads,
"3:6It
happened, while there was war between the house of Sha'ul and the house of
David, that Aviner made himself strong in the house of Sha'ul. 3:7Now Sha'ul had a concubine, whose name was
Ritzpah, the daughter of Ayah: and Ish-Boshet said to Aviner, 'Why have you
gone in to my father's concubine?' 3:8Then
was Aviner very angry for the words of Ish-Boshet, and said, 'Am I a dog's head
that belongs to Yahudah? This day do I show kindness to the house of Sha'ul
your father, to his brothers, and to his friends, and have not delivered you
into the hand of David; and yet you charge me this day with a fault concerning
this woman. 3:9The Mighty One do so
to Aviner, and more also, if, as Yahweh has sworn to David, I don't do even so
to him; 3:10to transfer the kingdom
from the house of Sha'ul, and to set up the throne of David over Yisra'el and
over Yahudah, from Dan even to Be'er-Sheva.' 3:11He
could not answer Aviner another word, because he feared him."
It should therefore be clear that David DID NOT have sexual intercourse with all of Saul's wives.
I wonder, why do you ask me this question - to ascertain how much Bible law I really know? For what purpose?
I have not answered all your questions. The ones not pertaining to our initial discussion I have left to a future occasion when time and opportunity avails itself. But I think what I have answered should go a long way to clarifying the matters raised in our discussion.
Shalom
ISAAC
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